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emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms
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TOPIC: emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms
#3063
cindy
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emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms 4 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
Hi Brenda,

I started a thread to follow up with your last question to me regarding the MRI...

you asked: What exactly did the radiologist report say concerning the issues at your C5/6? The root is based on the "bottom disk" level - so you are talking the c6 nerve root. That puppy serves the top of the shoulder, biceps and the top of the forearm, and the thumb. Did the report say anything about it hitting a nerve root or the cord? Some folks have a "bulging" disk, and it isn't hitting anything?

-- Here's my long background and question:
A long time ago I saw an orthopedic surgeon because of carpal tunnel cubicle tunnel symptoms. He sent me for an emg/ncs which showed cervical radiopathy at c6 and c7 and demyelination from elbow. (I would have to find report to type their exact words).
The night before my exam I slept funny and could not move my neck in the morning. I did not mention this to the doctor because I thought he was only testing my hand. The doctor who did the study did not go over the results with me. When I saw the ortho he gave me results of the study & said I have a neck problem. Off I went for a MRI of the neck. It showed a very small disk buldge at c5/c6, not impinging on the nerves at all. I asked if sleeping on my neck funny could have skewed the emg/ncs - he said probably not and off I was sent for physical therapy for my neck.

After no relief for another long time frame, I went to a different doctor & started over again. This time symptoms are very clear and sharp, with muscle weakness and constant numbness and elbow pain and visble muscle wasting: the EMG/NCS comes out normal. I'll leave out more misdiagonosis by more dr's and get to my question...

?? If you have a cervical issue causing the symptoms of cubicle tunnel syndrome which vertebrates would be listed in the MRI and emg/ncs??

Thanks,
Cindy
 
Last Edit: 2009/11/21 23:33 By cindy.
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#3064
BrendaB
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Re:emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms 4 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
Howdy Cindy,

I have the MRI report that precipitated my surgery! I have a habit of getting all reports and films for my personal record!! That way if I have to move (re-assignment) or what have you, I have my history!!!


Okay, for the C5/6 (C6 root) here is what it said:

"Disk disiccation, disk space narrowing, right side paracentral disk herniation, with possible associated endplate spurring mildly indenting the ventral thecal sac, without spinal stenosis. There is mild facet hypertrophy.

IMPRESSION: Degenerative disk disease C5-6, right paracentral herniation and endplate spurring."

Once the disk or spurs hit anything "thecal" that is commonly effecting the nerve. Mine did, and also reduced the amount of spinal fluid movement.
Ventral is to the side.


For my C6/7 I had "Moderate disk space narrowing, posterior central disk herniation impressing on the thecal sac. Narrowing of the sagittal dimension of the central spinal canal. Uncovertebral joint thickening resulting in moderate left sided and mild right sided foraminal narrowing." Again hitting a nerve root..lucky me huh? This was just a little over a year after my last surgery!!!

For pinkie and ring, that is the "C8" root - C7/T1. Issues at the C6/7 are the middle finger and index, and a tiny bit into the thumb. Can the issues you describe give you pain in the neck - yes. Does the surgery fix the neck pain? Not always, the radicular pain, most commonly YES.

I have disk height narrowing in my T1/C7 now, along with moderate osteophytes (bone spurs) on the back side of that disk group. I lost the feeling (again darn it) in my pinkie and thumb within hours this go around - so I am pretty sure the spurs are pushing the disk towards the root. I say that because it is one side and not bilateral. My fusion area that isn't taking, I am now getting tingling in my left hand (bilateral) as well. They will probably have to go back in to fix it. It is called "Revision" surgery - yuck!

If your C7/T1 is affected,than yes it can cause Cubital issues. From what you are describing, no...wrong disk levels for it. Did you have (or) are you having another MRI soon? Hopefully it won't show issues down there, but if it does, that will answer a LOT for you.

As for bulging, yes... My C2/3 is listed as "Chronic moderate left side foraminal narrowing related to uncovertabral joint thickening (stenosis) and posterolateral towards frominal bulging of the disk" <--- If this continues, it will hit the nerve root. The spurs already are - but my symptoms aren't bad enough for surgery yet. My NS is concerned about this area, so we are monitoring it.

In English, it is crowding my nerve root on left and right sides now. The impression from the radiologist to my neurosurgeon: "Please correlate with neurological exam to evaluate for left C3 radicular symptoms" I have never seen a radiologist "suggest" further exam. I am now having some of the symptoms - and there is no PT for it. I won't take the shots as they DO NOT work for me.

My EMG for the C6/7 was solid on the mark! Basically I now have permanent nerve damage to my shoulder and triceps and forearm, hand..bites!

I think I covered everything? <G> Please let me know if there are any more questions I can answer. Also, look up "Dematome Map" and you will see the nerve groupings and their affected areas. Pretty informative actually. Take care.

Brenda
 
Last Edit: 2009/11/22 05:15 By BrendaB.
Mar 08 ACDF with Instrumentation C5/6
April 08 Subcutaneous Ulnar Transposition, Guyon's Release and claw fingers release
Aug 09 ACDF with Instrumentations C6/7
Oct 09 (new) Degenerative disk disease with Osteophytes C7/T1 Degenerative disk disease C2/3, disk bulge, Osteophytes
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#3065
cindy
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Re:emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms 4 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
Hello Brenda,

Thanks for sharing your report with me. Can I just say "oh my gosh" your reports sound terrible. I'm glad your attitude is positive. Did you find out if you are going to need medical retirement or not?

I really don't think I have a neck problem. I think I just had a combination of a misdiagnosis and a flooked emg/ncs test. It did make me wonder what the reports actually mean or refer to I should say.

I did look up the Dermatodes maps - they are pretty interesting, but I didn't find enough detail to know where you would place the electrodes if you are doing home ems/tens. Can you tell me the key words I would need to search for that on the internet? I've tried unsuccessfully.

On the MRI reports it will show the c5/c6 issue which is a C6 nerve root on the dermatode map?

On the ncs/emg it only shows c6 as a single entry is this the c6 nerve root as well?
On a seperate line it list C7 again I'm assuming this is the C7 nerve root, not disc, is that correct?

Thanks!
Cindy
 
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#3066
BrendaB
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Re:emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms 4 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
cindy wrote:
Hello Brenda,

Thanks for sharing your report with me. Can I just say "oh my gosh" your reports sound terrible. I'm glad your attitude is positive. Did you find out if you are going to need medical retirement or not?


Howdy Cindy!!! )))
I have to stay positive, else go nuts! <G> The next MRI will not be pretty for sure the back MRI will be nasty - but that's another day as they say. Yes I am in process of filing for Federal Disability Retirement. I will have to file for SSDI as well - but it doesn't matter if I get SSDI, as it is a wash with the federal govt. If I get it, they just take that out of my annuity, if I don't get it, they add the difference - hence a wash. )


I really don't think I have a neck problem. I think I just had a combination of a misdiagnosis and a flooked emg/ncs test. It did make me wonder what the reports actually mean or refer to I should say.

I did look up the Dermatodes maps - they are pretty interesting, but I didn't find enough detail to know where you would place the electrodes if you are doing home ems/tens. Can you tell me the key words I would need to search for that on the internet? I've tried unsuccessfully.


Actually it's Dermatome, but that's okay. <G> The reason I suggested looking it up, wasn't for placement of electrodes, but so you can look and see what nerve root serves what area. The areas covered aren't all inclusive as there is a bit of overlap for nerves as we are all "built" a little differently.

For some really good *.PDF files for placement and true understanding of the modes and such for settings, look for key words: E-STIM - this one is GREAT for the placement of the electrodes - covers most of the body placements.

Transcutaneous Electronc Nerve Stimulation (TENS) is the *.PDF that describes the in's and out's of the TENS settings. Let me know if you can't find them, and I will figure a better word to look them up.



On the MRI reports it will show the c5/c6 issue which is a C6 nerve root on the dermatode map?

On the ncs/emg it only shows c6 as a single entry is this the c6 nerve root as well?
On a seperate line it list C7 again I'm assuming this is the C7 nerve root, not disc, is that correct?

Thanks!
Cindy


Yes, when they list the area together "C5/6" that would be the C6 nerve root. If they list it alone (and that is common on the electrical testing for some reason), the yes, C6 or C7 by itself concerns that nerve root segment. C8 would be the Ulnar. Type again soon Cindy.

Brenda
 
Last Edit: 2009/11/22 20:06 By BrendaB.
Mar 08 ACDF with Instrumentation C5/6
April 08 Subcutaneous Ulnar Transposition, Guyon's Release and claw fingers release
Aug 09 ACDF with Instrumentations C6/7
Oct 09 (new) Degenerative disk disease with Osteophytes C7/T1 Degenerative disk disease C2/3, disk bulge, Osteophytes
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#3067
cindy
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Re:emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms 4 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
hmmm, I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing as federal disability is that because of your profession? I sure hope your disc doesn't impinge anymore than it already is.

I'm still having problems finding the e-stim site. I sent you a connection request through this site in hopes that you can send the link to me a private message. Or maybe you could post it on the forum site-not sure what the rules are for posting. ?
 
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#3068
BrendaB
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Re:emg/ncs mri for neck issues causing CuTS symptoms 4 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
cindy wrote:
hmmm, I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing as federal disability is that because of your profession? I sure hope your disc doesn't impinge anymore than it already is.

As a Federal employee it is one of the benefits we have. Once you have more than 18 months in, and you have a disability that prevents you from doing one or more of the "essential" elements of your job, you are eligible. For me, I have lost around 75% strength in my right arm thanks to damage when the disk herniated hard onto the nerve root. That is a bit of a major issue unfortunately in law enforcement. I have 19 years 3 months. Once the rest of my "Physician statements" come through, my lawyer will send in the packet. In law enforcement jobs, the approval comes through usually in about 1-3 months. I figure I will be retired around late January or February, maybe sooner.

Unfortunately C2/3 is a "life threatening" critical level. He won't let it go too far. That level scares the umm...sh!^ out of me! Fortunately (and this is why it isn't an emergency right now) - the bulging is into a nerve root, and the bone spurs are growing into a nerve root area (foremen), so unless they go together (highly unlikely) symptoms will dictate his surgery. It is coming, of that (sniff) I have no doubt. But thanks for your good wishes Cindy. My spine just hates me. As I said, I am dreading the full spine MRI. I will do that one as well in the stand up MRI - spine under load - more is seen. More than 38% is missed in a recumbent MRI!



I'm still having problems finding the e-stim site. I sent you a connection request through this site in hopes that you can send the link to me a private message. Or maybe you could post it on the forum site-not sure what the rules are for posting. ?


Tell ya what, send me your email address in "private messages" and I will email it to you. The email title will be "E-STIM" I will send both *.PDF files to you. Will that work for you? I've been on this site since almost when it came up, and I too don't know if I could "upload" it into a post or not.

Timm - rules on that? I am not sure it would format though....

Brenda
 
Last Edit: 2009/11/23 01:01 By BrendaB.
Mar 08 ACDF with Instrumentation C5/6
April 08 Subcutaneous Ulnar Transposition, Guyon's Release and claw fingers release
Aug 09 ACDF with Instrumentations C6/7
Oct 09 (new) Degenerative disk disease with Osteophytes C7/T1 Degenerative disk disease C2/3, disk bulge, Osteophytes
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